Here are some inside perspectives on Schoen’s three-year body of work
In our bye week series of position reviews, we have focused largely on the three-year body of work compiled by New York Giants general manager Joe Schoen. To get other perspectives on Schoen’s decisions, I surveyed a handful of former NFL executives and some current national media members.
I received responses from three, and those are detailed below. They provide interesting, varied perspectives on Schoen’s work.
Jeff Diamond was general manager of the Minnesota Vikings from 1991-1998 and President of the Tennessee Titans from 1999-2004. He was named Executive of the Year after the 1998 season.
T.J. McCreight was a player personnel executive for the Philadelphia Eagles for five years, beginning in 2017. He was director of college scouting for the Indianapolis Colts from 2012-2016, and director of pro personnel for the Arizona Cardinals from 2009-2011. He began his NFL career as a scout for the Baltimore Ravens in 1997.
Ralph Vacchiano covers the NFC East for FOX Sports. He formerly covered the Giants and the NFL for the New York Daily News and then SNY TV.
How do you feel about Schoen’s handling of the Giants quarterback situation? Both the re-signing of Daniel Jones in 2022, and what has happened since? In particular, not selecting a quarterback when he had an opportunity in the 2024 draft?
McCreight:
When the Giants signed Daniel Jones in March of 2023, I did not love that decision, but when you looked deeply what were their options? In his four seasons before he signed, he threw 60 TDs/34 INTs and was coming off a Wild Card win. They were not in a position to draft any of the top quarterbacks in the 2023 draft except for Will Levis – and some thought that he would go sooner than he actually went. With all of that it would have been tough to hit ‘reset’ at that time. But then, after he signed, he injured his neck and then a knee and the wheels sort of fell off. It would have been difficult (money allocation/cap) – but not impossible – to draft a quarterback in 2024. I question that decision more than the other. They could have stayed at 6 and picked Michael Penix or JJ McCarthy – or perhaps get creative to try to move up for Jayden Daniels. Not picking a QB in 2024 will haunt them.
** Note the Jets and Sam Darnold/Zach Wilson for a similar type of decision they were facing.
Diamond:
I thought the re-signing of Jones was the right move after his very good 2022 season when he had a career-best 92.5 passer rating, led the Giants to a wild card spot and had a 300-yard passing game in the playoff upset win at Minnesota. I thought the $40 million per year deal was a bit too high but I understand the need to overpay him a bit to get the deal done in order to use the franchise tag on Saquon.
It was unfortunate Jones got hurt in 2023 and he already was off to a rough start when the injury occurred due in large part to the offensive line being the worst in the league in pass protection and Jones did not have a true No. 1 wide receiver until Nabers this year. I still think he can be a quality QB (top 15 but not top 10, as he was in 2022) with a better supporting cast (still getting sacked too much this season—29 times, 4th most in the league).
As for the 2024 draft, the Giants were stuck with Jones for 2024 with his $69M dead money hit if traded or released. They could’ve picked a QB at No. 6 (McCarthy?) but he would’ve sat for a year so now they might have the No. 1 overall pick since at 2-8, that’s where they sit going into Week 11. At this point, they’re almost certain to trade or release Jones before $12M of his 2025 salary is guaranteed on the fifth day of the 2025 league year in March which will trigger a more manageable $22.2M dead money hit (and a $19.4M cap savings so they can draft another first-round QB and sign a bridge vet as the Vikings did with Darnold for $10M this season).
Vacchiano:
I’ve had no problem with how he’s handled the QB situation so far. Jones was coming off a terrific season in 2022 and looked like he had all the necessary talent and tools, if only a good team could be built around him. The contract wasn’t terrible for a starting QB either and it gave the Giants an ‘out’ in two years if it didn’t work. Then Jones got hurt, and now he clearly has regressed so it looks bad in hindsight, but also remember that in 2022 the Giants had no other viable options at QB.
I also give Schoen credit for trying to get a QB in the 2024 draft. But they could not find a trading partner in the Top 3 and I’m not sure any of the other QBs were worth a pick after that. It made sense at that point to get a No. 1 receiver and see if that would help Jones. Obviously it didn’t.
It looks like the Giants hit on a really good 2024 draft class. The 2022 and 2023 classes, not so much? What is your assessment of what he’s done? What did he get right? Wrong? Is he a good talent evaluator?
McCreight:
Good 2024 draft….2022/23 were not quite as good: Kayvon Thibodeaux was a reach – and many NFL people thought so at the time. I know he had 11 sacks last year – but really putting your eyes on him, he is overrated. Evan Neal has been a bust and there were questions about him as well. I like JMS – he will be a solid starter at an important position. And regarding 2024 – I like Nabers – but I explained how I felt about passing up on the QB position. I think Joe is a good evaluator – the problem may be more big-picture team building.
Vacchiano:
We’ll see about 2024, but the early returns are obviously good. His first two years obviously are unimpressive. I think what he got right is he tried to fill a lot of positional needs for the Giants with his drafts. I know everyone says draft the “best available player” but most teams don’t do that, especially teams with tons of holes. He attacked weaknesses on the offensive line, at receiver and in the secondary early in all three drafts. He also didn’t overspend on positions like running back.
Obviously his pick of Kayvon Thibodeaux is an example of what he got right. He has had a few hits. Clearly he’s whiffed on a lot of his offensive line picks. Three years is really too early to say whether he and his staff are good talent evaluators. Nobody thought Dave Gettleman was good at that, but a lot of his drafts look far better now.
Photo by Mitchell Leff/Getty Images
Maybe it is overly simple to ask it this way, but did Schoen mishandle the Saquon Barkley situation? Should Barkley still be a Giant? Philosophically, Schoen followed the accepted ‘don’t pay a running back who will likely see declining production a big second contract’ model.
McCreight:
Saquon Barkley – It is a kick in the gut when your division rival takes your best player. I totally understand the philosophy on running backs – but I would probably have made an exception to that one. They only would have had to pay him money – not any draft picks. Plus, when I heard what the owner said about that on ‘Hard Knocks’ that should have made that decision a bit clearer.
Diamond:
On the Barkley situation, he should have been re-signed if at all possible or hit with the franchise tag again in Feb 2024. Barkley is an elite back and not too old at 27 who has battled injuries but he’s a Pro Bowl back and one of the best dual purpose backs in the league as he’s showing in Philly (1,137 rushing yards, 5.8 average) and has 23 catches, 10 combined TDs and a big part of the Eagles’ 8-2 start. The $12.1M franchise tag was reasonable for him and the three-year, $37.75M deal in Philly is a bargain compared to Christian McCaffrey’s $19M per year extension. The Giants probably could have signed him for the Eagles deal which was done before the McCaffrey deal. It’s a worst-case scenario that Saquon wound up with a division rival and then he rushes for 176 yards in the Eagle 28-3 blowout win over the Giants in Week 7.
Vacchiano:
No. He got it right. Look around the league. The Saquon Barkley contract is an outlier. He got his $26 million guaranteed, but the Ravens got Derrick Henry for $9 million. Detroit has David Montgomery for $5 million. Houston got Joe Mixon for $13 million. Tyrone Tracy is doing pretty well for the Giants and he’s a fifth-round pick.
The Eagles could afford what Barkley wanted. They are also a great team with a powerful offensive line where he could thrive. The Giants could not afford $26 million guaranteed to a running back when they’re still in a rebuilding stage. Running backs like him are a luxury. Teams like the Giants can’t afford to waste cap space on luxuries.
In three drafts, Schoen has drafted four offensive linemen. Only John Michael Schmitz looks like an at least adequate NFL starter. All he has added to the defensive line is a fifth-round pick (D.J. Davidson) and seventh-round pick (Jordon Riley). Does that point to a flaw in Schoen’s philosophy, his talent evaluation, what?
McCreight:
They picked four OL in his three drafts. That group would look A LOT better if Evan Neal was a player – that was just a flat out miss and he was WAY over drafted. There were a bunch of good players that they should have picked at 7 instead of Neal. Many NFL scouts really questioned that pick for sure.
Vacchiano:
If you mean philosophically, then no. That defensive line is pretty good and he inherited a star in Dexter Lawrence. I know you’re talking about the interior of the defensive line, but don’t forget he traded for Brian Burns and drafted Kayvon Thibodeaux and that counts for the line. He also signed linebacker Bobby Okereke, which helps shore up the middle of the defense.
The biggest reason why the Giants have been bad for the last decade is their failure to build an offensive line. The line they had in the Tom Coughlin/Super Bowl era was tremendous, powerful, and really powered everything they did offensively. Clearly his offensive line picks didn’t work out, but philosophically, trying to rebuild that side of the ball first made perfect sense.
In the last two seasons, Schoen has refused to trade four free agents to be at the deadline — Barkley, Xavier McKinney, Azeez Ojulari, Darius Slayton. Is he overvaluing his players? Undervaluing late-round picks? Doing the right thing?
McCreight:
Deadline – if you’re not going to re-sign a player and he has value I am a big believer in moving them at the deadline for picks. I was not sure at the time why they didn’t do that. Like teams like the Bengals – the Giants seem more ‘old school’ and don’t think that way – that is how I see it looking from the outside.
Vacchiano:
It’s hard to say without knowing for sure what he was offered for them. It’s easy to say “Just get anything for them” but that’s not how it works in real life. He still has to try to field a competitive team (even if fans are clamoring for a “tank”) and in some of those cases he might have had some hope that he could re-sign those players after the season. I doubt John Mara would’ve been OK with trading Barkley, for example, because he still wanted his most popular player back.
So if he was offered a fifth-round pick for Ojulari or Slayton this year, should he have done it? I get the argument, but in that case I might prefer to keep them and see if a deal can be worked out after the season. If he was offered a fourth-round pick for either, that probably would be too rich for me to pass up.
An overall question. Three years in, fans are ready to toss Schoen and Brian Daboll overboard and start again. Even though the evidence is mixed in three seasons, can Schoen still get this right and build a consistently competitive Giants team?
McCreight:
Big picture – Joe and Brian Daboll are solid football people. They are not perfect, and they have made mistakes – but I honestly believe they can build a winning team.
Vacchiano:
Fans, by nature, are pretty reactionary. But if you pull out and look at the big picture, this franchise is now on its fifth coach and fourth GM in the nine years since Tom Coughlin walked out the door. A franchise that used to be known for its stability—sometimes to a fault—is now Team Chaos. There is simply no example in sports of a team sustaining success with that kind of sustained chaos.
So hard as it is to tell the paying customers, a little patience is needed. I’m not impressed with what Schoen and Daboll have done in three seasons, obviously, but one of them was good and I do wonder what they could do with a better quarterback. I’m more sold on the GM than the coach because I do think this team has better overall talent than what he inherited. But yeah, I expected them to be in a better position by now.
So yes, I think Schoen can get it right. He might have to fire Daboll, especially if they’re not a playoff contender next year. They’re both running out of time, though. Schoen just told the world he believes the Giants are “close” and can make a big leap forward next season. That’s great. The problem is that when you say that, you better actually do it.